Tuesday, December 30, 2014

John 8:58, Before Abraham was, I AM; this does not prove the Trinity


John 8:58-59,
ειπεν αυτοις ιησους αμην αμην λεγω υμιν πριν αβρααμ γενεσθαι εγω ειμι
ηραν ουν λιθους ινα βαλωσιν επ αυτον ιησους δε εκρυβη και εξηλθεν εκ του ιερου
“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am (ἐγὼ εἰμί).  Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.”
There are three questions we should ask.
1.                   Does the context make sense to translate it this way?
2.                  Does the Greek need to be translated this way?
3.                  Does the Greek match the “I AM” in Exodus?
Does the context make sense to translate it this way? 
Let’s look at the larger context.  
John 8:39-59 ESV
απεκριθησαν και ειπαν αυτω ο πατηρ ημων αβρααμ εστιν λεγει αυτοις [ο] ιησους ει τεκνα του αβρααμ εστε τα εργα του αβρααμ ποιειτε
39 They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing the works Abraham did,
νυν δε ζητειτε με αποκτειναι ανθρωπον ος την αληθειαν υμιν λελαληκα ην ηκουσα παρα του θεου τουτο αβρααμ ουκ εποιησεν
40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did.
The Jews already wanted to kill Jesus.  The Abraham statement was not the reason they wanted to kill him.  It was only the straw that broke the camel’s back.
υμεις ποιειτε τα εργα του πατρος υμων ειπαν αυτω ημεις εκ πορνειας ουκ εγεννηθημεν ενα πατερα εχομεν τον θεον
41 You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.”
The Jews claimed to be sons of God and accused Jesus of being an illegitimate child.
ειπεν αυτοις [ο] ιησους ει ο θεος πατηρ υμων ην ηγαπατε αν εμε εγω γαρ εκ του θεου εξηλθον και ηκω ουδε γαρ απ εμαυτου εληλυθα αλλ εκεινος με απεστειλεν
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.
δια τι την λαλιαν την εμην ου γινωσκετε οτι ου δυνασθε ακουειν τον λογον τον εμον
43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.
υμεις εκ του πατρος του διαβολου εστε και τας επιθυμιας του πατρος υμων θελετε ποιειν εκεινος ανθρωποκτονος ην απ αρχης και εν τη αληθεια ουκ εστηκεν οτι ουκ εστιν αληθεια εν αυτω οταν λαλη το ψευδος εκ των ιδιων λαλει οτι ψευστης εστιν και ο πατηρ αυτου
44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Jesus said they were the sons of the Devil.
εγω δε οτι την αληθειαν λεγω ου πιστευετε μοι
45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.
τις εξ υμων ελεγχει με περι αμαρτιας ει αληθειαν λεγω δια τι υμεις ου πιστευετε μοι
46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?
ο ων εκ του θεου τα ρηματα του θεου ακουει δια τουτο υμεις ουκ ακουετε οτι εκ του θεου ουκ εστε
47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”
απεκριθησαν οι ιουδαιοι και ειπαν αυτω ου καλως λεγομεν ημεις οτι σαμαριτης ει συ και δαιμονιον εχεις
48 The Jews answered him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?”
απεκριθη ιησους εγω δαιμονιον ουκ εχω αλλα τιμω τον πατερα μου και υμεις ατιμαζετε με
49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me.
εγω δε ου ζητω την δοξαν μου εστιν ο ζητων και κρινων
50 Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge.
αμην αμην λεγω υμιν εαν τις τον εμον λογον τηρηση θανατον ου μη θεωρηση εις τον αιωνα
51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”
ειπον αυτω οι ιουδαιοι νυν εγνωκαμεν οτι δαιμονιον εχεις αβρααμ απεθανεν και οι προφηται και συ λεγεις εαν τις τον λογον μου τηρηση ου μη γευσηται θανατου εις τον αιωνα
52 The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’
μη συ μειζων ει του πατρος ημων αβρααμ οστις απεθανεν και οι προφηται απεθανον τινα σεαυτον ποιεις
53 Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?”
The Jews accused Jesus of being demon possessed and were enraged that he suggested he was greater than Abraham.
απεκριθη ιησους εαν εγω δοξασω εμαυτον η δοξα μου ουδεν εστιν εστιν ο πατηρ μου ο δοξαζων με ον υμεις λεγετε οτι θεος υμων εστιν
54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’
και ουκ εγνωκατε αυτον εγω δε οιδα αυτον καν ειπω οτι ουκ οιδα αυτον εσομαι ομοιος υμιν ψευστης αλλα οιδα αυτον και τον λογον αυτου τηρω
55 But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep hisi word.
αβρααμ ο πατηρ υμων ηγαλλιασατο ινα ιδη την ημεραν την εμην και ειδεν και εχαρη
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”
ειπον ουν οι ιουδαιοι προς αυτον πεντηκοντα ετη ουπω εχεις και αβρααμ εωρακας
57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”
ειπεν αυτοις ιησους αμην αμην λεγω υμιν πριν αβρααμ γενεσθαι εγω ειμι
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
ηραν ουν λιθους ινα βαλωσιν επ αυτον ιησους δε εκρυβη και εξηλθεν εκ του ιερου
59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
Here the context shows that the Jews already wanted to kill Jesus.  They were enraged that Jesus called them sons of the Devil and said he was greater than Abraham.  They finally picked up stones when Jesus said he existed before Abraham.
Does the Greek need to be translated this way?
The Greek phrase translated as “I AM” is (εγω ειμι) . It can certainly be translated this way.  John 14: 9 uses it in a different way.


In the King James it is, “Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you”.  So, (ειμι) can be used to simply convey existing from a point in the past until now.  This means that the phrase in John 8:58 could have been translated as “since before Abraham was, I have been”. I believe translating it that way would make more sense in the context of the preceding verses. 
 Does the Greek match the “I AM” in Exodus?
Jesus was probably speaking Aramaic to the Jews during this argument.  The author of John translated the argument into Greek.  Most of the Greek speaking Jews and Christians used the Septuagint.  The New Testament authors often copied the Septuagint when quoting Old Testament passages.  So, if the author of John wanted to indicate that Jesus was indicating that he was the “I AM” in Exodus 3: 14, he would have most effectively done this by using the phrasing of the Septuagint.  
This is how the Septuagint renders
Exodus 3: 14. 


Imagine it was me talking.  “And Ben said to Moses, ‘I am Ben’.  And he said thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘Ben has sent me to you’”.  You wouldn’t think that my name was ‘I am Ben’.  Obviously, my name is Ben. 
People get confused because they think God said, “I AM that I AM”.  They think this because they read the common English translations.  Exodus wasn’t written in English.  It was originally written in Hebrew.  If you read it in Hebrew, you will read אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה.  The most direct translation is "I Will Be What I Will Be" or "I Will Become What I Will Become".  “I AM that I AM” is not the most accurate way to translate the Hebrew.
If the author of John was trying to indicate that Jesus was claiming to be the “I AM”, he would have most effectively done this by writing (ο ων), or (εγώ ειμι ο ων), not (εγώ ειμι).  (εγώ ειμι) by itself does a terrible job of connecting Jesus’ statement to Exodus 3:14. 
In fact, John did use (ο ων) to refer to God in Revelation.  Revelation 1:8,
εγω ειμι το αλφα και το ω λεγει κυριος ο θεος ο ων και ο ην και ο ερχομενος ο παντοκρατωρ
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is (ο ων), and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.” 

This shows that John connected (ο ων) with God.